How Mushrooms Transformed Henry's Life

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[00:01:00] Hello, I'm Tim Keck and welcome to the Mush Love Podcast. Today I'm talking with a man that we'll call Henry. The reason why we're not using Henry's real name is that he grows psychedelic mushrooms. Mostly for his own use, he also gives them to friends and sometimes sells them. These days there are a ton of people growing psychedelic mushrooms and I wanted to talk with one of them on the show to find out the whys and hows they do it.

[00:01:26] Henry grew up in the Pacific Northwest. He did forage mushrooms as a kid, not the psychedelic kind. He got an English degree, started working in the world of software, raised a family. And then in the middle of his life, he had a brush with death and started experiencing severe anxiety and depression. This lasted for a while. Then he had a very chance encounter with psychedelic mushrooms and that's when his life changed. It's an interesting story and I think you'll like it.

[00:02:00] Hello and welcome to the Mush Love Podcast. I'm Tim Keck and today I have a special guest. His name is Henry. Henry is a person who is growing mushrooms, psychedelic mushrooms in Seattle. And like a lot of people, it has gotten more and more interested in both mushrooms and psychedelic mushrooms and growing their own. And I was really lucky to have connected with Henry to talk about this.

[00:02:27] And I'm really interested in why and how and the legality and the connection that all of these things bring when you grow your own mushrooms, particularly psychedelic mushrooms. Henry, welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. So Henry, how did you get into growing magic mushrooms? Well, I grew up on a small island here, Puget Sound. And so as a young kid, you would drive by the fields and see these hippies out there picking. I'd say, Mom, what are they doing? Oh, they're picking mushrooms.

[00:02:56] So that was my first. People are out there picking mushrooms. And we knew a German family. So we got into foraging young. Young college. And the Germans love mushrooms, don't they? They are. Yeah, they are the number one culture for mushrooms as far as the Western world goes. Yeah, and they have no fear of mushrooms. Whereas Anglos, Brits tend to have a fear of mushrooms. Alice in Wonderland. Yeah. I talked to a guy recently for the show that does that.

[00:03:23] And he's just like, well, you know, poisonous is like kind of, you know, there's very few that are really will kill you. But some might not settle your stomach well, you know. Yeah. Yeah. There's a it's part of that culture going way back, by the way. It's it's very part of much part of the Germanic mythology and culture. So and then college ran with a group of bohemians. And, you know, we experimented with LSD and peyote, et cetera, and mushrooms.

[00:03:52] And I'm like, hey, I know where to get mushrooms. I grew up on mushroom capital of Fuget Sound. So and, you know, back then in college, we just ate it by the handful. And of course, you know, heroic journeys, you know, which this is not a great introduction. Yeah. No one on the scale. And and perhaps mixed with a half a joint and a and a and a rum and coke. Yeah. And MDMA and Jägermeister. And yeah, we actually did had a nine drug apocalypse one night on Bainbridge.

[00:04:23] I like a nine drug apocalypse. Yeah. No, we counted nine. Yeah. Including clove cigarettes, regular cigarettes. Yeah. So anyway, just, you know, college experimentation is fine. Never had a challenging trip. We don't say good or bad trip. We say challenging because you can learn a lot from a challenging trip. So no judgments on that. But then, you know, hit midlife and hit hit a serious snag. You know, luck got hard.

[00:04:53] I was working full time. Very stressful job, Microsoft. And, you know, this is really stressful. And in Hawaii, I almost drowned 2009. And I it was quite for some people. A near death experience gives them new life. I know a woman who did that. It's like every day is a gift. Hooray for me. Opposite. I was in Hawaii with a family, you know, and we were in a hotel on the beach.

[00:05:21] And I, you know, I love whales and turtles. So I went out there just with my flippers. I said, oh, I can get back to shore. And I was just listening to the whales sing and watching the turtles. And suddenly I was, damn, the ocean bottom is a long way down. And it's getting cold. And I looked up and I had gone way out. This is Waimea Beach there. And I'm not a strong swimmer. I thought, oh, I got paddles. But I started to panic. One of my flippers fell off. And then I started to panic more.

[00:05:50] And I'd never had a panic attack in my life until then. I had no idea what was happening to me. And I could see the shore. But the current, the cold, the panic. And just the light started disappearing around the edges. And down, down, down, down. Just darkness to it. And I was going to, you know, I thought, this is it. And by some miracle, two people in a canoe, a canoe in Hawaii.

[00:06:18] Who the hell has a canoe in Hawaii? It must have been Canadians. They come by and they drag me to shore. You know, just, and I'm just laying there on the shore. And I thought, oh, man. And everyone's laughing. It's like, ah, we saw you out there. It's like, ah, yeah, it's funny. And so you feel like if the canoe people weren't out there, there was a good chance you wouldn't have made it. Oh, yeah. No, I was done. And so they literally saved my life.

[00:06:47] And so, yeah. So thank you, canoe people. But, and then, you know, I went back to normal. And, you know, just, you know, we're on holiday, blah, blah. I got home. First thing I did, I sat down at the kitchen table and drank an entire bottle of wine. And my, and I'd never done that before. I mean, I probably had at some point, but not for medicinal reasons. And my wife, she says, well, I guess you're still on vacation, you know, Sunday night. And I'm like, I'm not drinking because I'm on vacation.

[00:07:16] And then for, I'd never experienced panic attacks or PTSD or anxiety. Never been to a therapist. None of that. No, you know. And it just, after six months, I was just like, what? You know, something's going on. So that was my, and it took me a long time. I resisted therapy, resisted everything. You know, it was fear, fear of mortality, which I'd never had before. And not just for me, for my kids.

[00:07:44] When I drove to work across the floating bridge, I had a life preserver in my backseat. And my friends were like, wow. And yeah, it was bad. Anxiety. It was PTSD from near grounding. So, and it spiraled. And the only thing I knew how to medicate was, it's alcohol. So, oh my God, I hit it. You know, I used to be social. And then it became a medicine. And it's just not good. You know, it spiraled. Anxiety, depression, more booze.

[00:08:14] And, you know, just down, down, down, down, down. And so, you know, I knew my solution was spiritual. So I embarked on a spiritual journey. Read, you know, a Buddhist text, Hinduism, the Stoics, Christianity as well. You know, philosophers, you know, Tibetan Milarepa. And, you know, just, wow, what's going on with this, you know, existential angst I'm feeling? And being in high tech, I'd heard about microdosing.

[00:08:42] You know, in 2010 or so, an article came out in Wired Magazine. Microdosing is a new rage in Silicon Valley. And engineers would say things like, it makes me 20% more creative, efficient, and productive. And 20% is a huge difference if you're competing with other engineers in a startup environment. That's the difference between all the stock and a dribble of stock awards.

[00:09:05] Yeah, and it's great that an engineer will give it, quantify creativity by an increase of 20%. Yeah, classic, right? So, but someone said it, Bill Gates or somebody, and then everyone repeated it. And so it's become the rule of thumb. Might be the 80-20 principle behind it or something. I don't know. But it's true. And in fact, a lot of the people I supply now are in high tech. And they say the same thing. It just makes me more focused.

[00:09:34] And anyway, back to how I got in it. So I was going through this angst and depression. I was just like, what? And I knew about microdosing. And I knew the health benefits. But didn't really think about it. I was, you know, pharmaceuticals, which just turned me into a walking zombie. And yeah, it just didn't work for me. Some people great. Yeah, and booze is horrible for it too, right? Like, booze is a shitty medicinal. It is.

[00:10:03] It separates you from your soul, which is the very thing that you need to connect with. So it keeps you in that low state. So I was alone. It was about five years ago up at Mount Baker. We got a cabin there. I was in the town of Glacier, which is right at the bottom of the mountain there. And a small town, 4th of July. By myself, I was sitting in the beer garden. And this guy walks up to me, my age, and, you know, just clean cut. He said, hey, would you like some mushrooms? And I said, yes.

[00:10:33] What did he get to say? So, yeah, he gave me this bag. And, you know, I hadn't been really, you know, in contact with mushrooms much so or at all. So looking back, it was about, I would guess, five grams of simulencia, which is Liberty Caps. At the time, then I got home and, you know, threw my sock drawer. And six months later, my fiance and I broke up.

[00:11:02] And, you know, yet more of the same, you know, depressive cycles. And I just, I was at my desk and I thought about the mushroom bag. So I went up, pulled it out, took it off a little chunk, ate it. And, you know, looking back, I would guess it was around a little less than 200 milligrams. And which is a microdose. Microdoses are between 140 and 400 milligrams. And, you know, I just ate it. And then suddenly, it was like two weeks later, like, why do I feel so good?

[00:11:33] Why am I happy? Why am I positive? And, you know, I feel creative. And I'm like, ah, I get it. And I'm kind of slow steady sometimes. So I kept microdosing. So you felt, so you were able to attribute it from the, you know, that one. And I'm sorry, when you took that dose, did you, was there any, what was your difference in perception or how were you high at all? Or was it a true microdose? No, not at all.

[00:12:01] So microdoses are sub-perceptual. You don't feel high. You don't hallucinate. Yeah. But a lot of people call a microdose something more, you know. There's a technical microdose. And some people are like, ah, yeah, I guess that's a microdose. You're talking about the happy Sunday dose, which is a gram. And, you know, it's between a trip, it might be three grams. You know, microdose is 200 milligrams. But a happy Sunday is one gram. And yeah, I mean, for working in the garden, everything's brighter, happier.

[00:12:32] It's very euphoric, especially golden teachers, which I grow myself. So, no, I didn't feel anything immediately. And it does take two weeks of microdosing to kick in. And I was taking it every day. I knew nothing about it. Since then, I've adopted the Fadiman. James Fadiman, scientist born in 1939, was in psychedelics and studied it. And like a lot of people back then, it's like, hey, this is a medicine that works.

[00:12:59] And he came up with this Fadiman protocol of one day on, two days off. So right now, I'll take 200 milligrams. Take two days off, 200 milligrams. Or, of course, it's kind of nice to have that euphoric feeling as well. It's not an exact science. No. And it's actually, yeah, the potency varies. People say stems when we're putting the caps. Debate about that. It's a marginal difference, if anything. So, no, after two weeks, it kicked in. And it's subtle.

[00:13:28] I didn't feel anything. And then they say between two weeks and three weeks is when you start to feel the benefits. And I was not on SSRIs, which inhibit the benefits of this medicine. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Do not mix SSRIs with nature's medicine. It's just two different things. I don't know. I'm not a scientist. And by the way, these are my opinions.

[00:13:56] And I'm not a scientist. I'm just a guy on the internet, I guess. Finally. So, I ran out. I just ran out of mushrooms. And I'm like, okay, well, I know where to find some. You know, all my old deadhead friends, they had none. And, you know, I found someone who knew a guy who knew a guy. You know, nothing. So, I'm like, dang. And I started to, you know, just slip back into that anxiety, depression cycle. And I'm like, I'm going to grow mushrooms.

[00:14:25] I just decided. I'm like, I can do it. And so, I just went into it and completely 100%. I'd wake up at 4 in the morning and work on my lab, which I created, until 9 and then go to work. And so, by the time I decided I am going to grow my own medicine to when I had actual capsules was six weeks. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:52] Because it's not an easy process, especially in the Northwest, to grow your own. It is. No, it is very difficult. And there are so many steps. And it's very easy to get contamination. Contam is what we call it. And it is not easy. It is definitely doable. But so, I was, you know, and I didn't have my full lab up. I just had, you know, kind of a closet. One of my kids' bedrooms, they moved out. So, I sterilized it. And we started collecting equipment.

[00:15:20] And so, yeah, success. And shared some with my sister, who was going through similar issues, and some friends. And, you know, people started to say, yeah, you know, this is working. And it's so gratifying to help people, you know. You know, we hear all this doom and gloom about the world and planet. And we can't fix it all. But what you can help is your tribe. And I'm like, okay, forget the outside noise. I'm going to focus on myself and my people.

[00:15:47] And anyone else, you know, who, you know, could benefit from this medicine. And any way that you can help your own mind or your state of being is, in small part, helping the world, right? You're absolutely right. Yeah. We, you know, I believe we have a shared consciousness. And all it takes is a few people to start waking up to affect the greater consciousness of the planet. That's another conversation.

[00:16:17] But so, anyway, yeah, first time success. And, you know, in order to achieve that, I did all the research on the Internet. There are some great resources, of course, on the Internet. And I followed, you know, more or less, you know, I got some syringes that were inoculated with mycelium.

[00:16:41] I sit on Golden Teacher because it was, it's used for, it has a euphoric sort of reflective buzz to it. As opposed to like apes or Amazonia that has more active. And there's a lot of debate about this. It's like psilocybin and psilocybin. But, you know, the mushrooms have different compounds. Yeah, yeah. They're a complex thing. And there's, you know, just like THC. THC, you could have just THC.

[00:17:10] But when you smoke pot, you know, there's all these other chemical compounds that are in it. And same with mushrooms. So I started with Golden Teacher. And, you know, I bought some grain bags. And so I, you know, grew it in rye. You can grow it in rye or oats. And the bags, you know, I just ordered them online from like Midwest Grow Kits or Sporeworks or a company like that. And I just stuck the syringe in there and stuck it in the dark closet.

[00:17:40] 75 degrees. And, you know, suddenly within a couple weeks, my CD, I'm spreading this. It's just so exciting to watch. And such a rush. It's like, wow, it's growing. This is happening. It's so much fun. And to watch it grow. And it's kind of, I know it's a cliche to call it magic mushrooms.

[00:18:02] But how mushrooms grow and how rapidly and how weirdly they do, there is, it is kind of magic. Right? It is. Yeah. Mushrooms are, they're their own kingdom. They're not animalia. And they're not plants. In fact, people say that they're more closely related to animalia than to plants.

[00:18:24] And there are a lot of great specials on the Gaia channel, especially about mushrooms and what they are and the history of humanity and how we co-evolve with them. And why it is that when we eat them, suddenly our brains, it's like, where have you been? You know, it's, yeah, we evolved with them. So naturally, it's, you know, it's a natural drug that benefits us. So, yeah, watching it grow is magical. And so then, you know, after a while, the entire grain bag is all white with mycelium.

[00:18:54] And so I bought these monotubs, you know, at Target, the Sterilite 56-quart monotubs, drill holes in them, paint at the bottom. And, you know, I kind of went all in on details. And, you know, got some, I bought some substrate from, you know, a vendor and put it out there.

[00:19:16] And I dumped my mycelium, the grain, inoculated grain in there, patted it down, put a layer of substrate on top and stuck it in the closet 75 degrees. And every, several hours a day, I'd check it. And mycelium would pop up through the substrate. Then it would spread. And then, you know, where are they? Here they come. And then I just remember seeing that first little mushroom come up.

[00:19:44] And I was so excited. Took a picture of it. And it's just, it was really just this optimistic, brave little mushroom popping up. And then suddenly all these buddies. And, you know, within a week or 10 days, the tub was full of mushrooms. So, you know, harvested them. I bought a dehydrator. Boom, there they were. So, yeah, it was really, really exciting. And that was my first time through. And it's expensive to buy substrates from a vendor.

[00:20:15] So I said, I'm going to do this end-to-end myself. And so that's when I, you know, started building my lab. I got stainless steel, you know, shelves. And I was using a still air box to, because you want to avoid contamination at all costs. So it's basically a sterilite container where I drilled some holes in it and, you know, glued some, some gloves, rubber gloves on there, right?

[00:20:43] And then I would reach in there and do all my work in this little sterile box. You know, you spray. Awesome. That's so great. Yeah. I still got it. It has this mad scientist look to it. Yeah. And, yeah, spray it down at all costs. That's, you know, it started with very basic stuff. And since then, I bought an air hood, a laminar air flow hood, which just has a four-inch HEPA filter under. You flip a switch and the breeze comes over your work area. Completely sterile.

[00:21:11] And it's beautiful. And, you know, for that first batch, I followed to the letter the advice of experts. And then I thought, I know what I'm doing. And failure. That's when the failure. So, for instance, I thought, hey, mushrooms love horse manure. I'm going to get some horse manure. And I looked, you know, hardware stores don't sell it. And I thought I had to go to Eastern Washington, which is a long haul for horse manure. I'm like, what? So I looked around and I found it in Seattle.

[00:21:41] The best source for horse manure in Seattle is the Seattle Police Department. They, I know, ironies. And, yeah, their stable is here in West Seattle. And you can drive up there with a truck. And they will bring up, happily bring up their loader and fill up your truck with grade A clean living horse poop. And so I did that.

[00:22:09] And so I took it home and dried it out. Took a bunch more loads from my mom's blueberry bushes, too. It's great. And, of course, mushrooms pop out of it like crazy. And I was hoping there were some on the seeders, but they weren't. But anyway, so I thought, oh, yeah, and I'm going to do horse manure. It's free. It's, and, you know, it just contaminated immediately. And, you know, I did everything I could to sterilize it, you know, and actually pasteurize is what you do.

[00:22:39] It's, which is one step below sterilization. And 170 degrees for two hours in the oven. Still got just contamination everywhere. And I got sloppy with reading instructions. And then I just started losing bin after bin. And there's nothing more depressing than, you know, you've got your mason jar of grain. And I get grain, oat grain, 30 bucks a bag at the local feed store if you're in. And you can get a tractor supply as well. All this work.

[00:23:09] And it's a lot of work. It's a lot of time. Yeah. To have it just, you know, turn in the green mold. And it was really disheartening. So there was, after that initial success, there was a lot of failure. And a lot of it was because I was just kind of experimenting and saying, hey, but this. And so then I said, okay, back to the checklist. And, and so then after I just went back to the basics, I didn't try to be cute.

[00:23:37] You know, I didn't try to think I knew more than the experts. And that's when I got back onto success with not only growing, but cloning as well. What you do is out of your bin, you select your prime specimens, clone them on little auger dishes, which you have to keep sterile, of course. And then, and that's fun too. You put a little sliver of mushroom stem on an auger dish and you stick it in the closet. And then suddenly all these white tendrils start coming out.

[00:24:07] And before you know it, the whole auger dish is covered in white. And, you know, the juxtaposition of just brilliant white against the blue augers, just absolutely beautiful. And then you slice up the auger pieces and dump them in your grain and put them away. It's just. Yeah. That mycelium, it looks, it looks like a little slice of the moon, of a full moon, doesn't it? It has that almost kind of glowy kind of feeling. It does.

[00:24:32] And then if you look at it, it looks like rivers, you know, and with rivulets coming off of it, you know, the same pattern you see in nature everywhere. Even on, you know, even on Titan, the moons of Saturn, you see these, you know, rivulets everywhere. Yeah. It's just something that you see in nature. So, you know, my advice is go buy the book until you know what you're doing. And then just make small changes or small, you know.

[00:25:00] And so you are still experimenting, but it's in a much more controlled sort of way instead of, you know. It is. Yeah. I'm looking into liquid cultures now, which is, you know, you take a mixture of something sweet, honey and water, distilled water, and some other nutrients and sterilize it. And then you put the mushroom slice in there or spores.

[00:25:27] And then you take a syringe and, you know, suck 10 cc's out of there to not get your jars. And that's a next step. It's not really experimentation. It's more just extending, you know, my skill set. And it helps preserve your genetics over a longer term, six months as opposed to on an artery.

[00:25:51] So I assume you're still microdosing or dosing in general with your own, the mushrooms that you've grown, right? Yeah. How did that story end up? Well, you know, between, you know, with the help of my medicine and, you know, my spiritual journey, I'm sober and happy. And I lost 30 pounds when I started, and I didn't intend to. And I'm like, I just want to get sober and happy. That's all I care about.

[00:26:20] But I lost over 30 pounds. And not only that, my diet changed. And people say that they have noticed this. It's, oh, yeah, the shrooms told you what to eat. I'm like, and I had a fridge full of, you know, raw vegetables and, you know, healthy foods and out with a lot of the carbs. And I never planned that. It's like, and I like that food. It's just, you know, I don't eat sugar. And it's not like I decided. It's just it tastes horrible. So this rings true with me as well.

[00:26:50] So what do you think? What do you think the deal is? Like, do you feel like it is the mushrooms are telling you what to do? Or like, really, what do you feel? Why do you think there's something that's part and parcel of mushrooms that does this? Like, where do you think it comes from? I tend to be a natural skeptic. It comes from being a reporter for so many years, you know, and skeptical.

[00:27:12] So, but I can't come to any other conclusion just based on my own experience that something is going on here that is beyond my understanding. Yeah. Imagine that, right? This world is stranger than anything. And why not? And I'm not, people have been saying this, you know, sages and mystics for thousands of years, you know, that the medicine will talk to you. Peyote, ayahuasca, DMT.

[00:27:40] And I will say that I don't believe that the mushrooms make you high. I believe that they open a door to a different experience. It's not alcohol, you drink, you're sloshed. It just opens the doors of perception, like Alvin Suckley said. And it doesn't do anything to it. It enables you to use your innate power.

[00:28:05] And we have amazing innate powers that are repressed through booze, pharmaceuticals, alcohol, toxic food, you name it. These open up. So I think it's a companion that does point you in the right direction. And so do you feel like you have a relationship that's deeper even with the medicine because you grow it? Yes and no. I think that for me, it is a special connection that I do have.

[00:28:35] I don't think it makes it any more special or potent. I love growing my own food as well. And I like eating my tomatoes that I grow. And yeah, they kind of do taste better. So I think there is something to that. So it's like that same kind of level of eating your own delicious tomatoes. I would say so. Yeah, that satisfaction. It doesn't make the tomato more nutritious. It's just maybe it's ego that I need to get rid of. I don't know.

[00:29:05] And how about the people around you that you said you have people in your community and your family that have gotten mushrooms from you? How has that changed your relationship with them? Well, so with the people, you mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, well, for one thing, it makes me feel, you know, I believe that our greatest mission is to help other people and alleviate suffering of our, you know, our fellow beings.

[00:29:32] It's where they're plant animals or people. The whole thing is sacred. So it makes me feel great. And people are very grateful as well that they have a place to go for this medicine. And I would say that 80% of the people who have used the medicine have had great effects and come back for it. The other 20, you know, I have a friend. I'm like, she was just drinking two bottles of wine a night. And she started doing it.

[00:30:03] And she says, it's not doing anything. And I was just like, oh, you're drinking two bottles of wine a night. That's, you know, kind of cancels it out. And I think she was expecting something like cocaine, you know, that makes me feel great suddenly. And it's just not that. I think that. Unless you eat a lot, then you for sure have, you know. Yeah. If you have a handful, you're going to for sure have a big experience. Yeah, on Neptune. So it's, I think that it has a lot to do with your mindset.

[00:30:31] And you're accepting, you know, how you accept it. And it's really funny that people, you have the stereotype of people who will take it and be open to it. And stereotypes don't fit at all. You know, I've talked to, you know, my doctor. And, you know, lawyers and professionals and the tech bros. And then, but meanwhile, there's a hippie, you know, psychic down the street. She won't touch it. It's like, oh, I don't know. Really, I would think that you'd be all in, you know. Crystals and all this stuff. No, I'm afraid.

[00:31:00] So, yeah, you never know. You have to be ready. Also, set and setting is so important. And for me, I do microdoses in my happy Sunday now and then. I don't do therapeutic trips, which are not yet. I will for sure. I'm just waiting for that set and setting and, you know, the right group of people. And do you typically take them alone?

[00:31:28] Or do you ever, you know, do when you have your happy Sunday, do it with another person? Or is this more of a solitary experience for you? Well, it's mostly solitary. I am kind of an introvert and a writer. So it's, I spent a lot of, I value my solitude. Spent a lot of time alone. But, you know, one of my college buddies came over and we took a happy Sunday and went walking around Alki. It was like just a hoot. You know, it was so much fun. And so, yeah, sharing that experience with other people is really the next, the highest level.

[00:31:57] I think that it's a very communal experience, just like meditation and yoga. You know, it means more when you're with other people. And in the right setting, you know, in college, we'd go to a concert on much. It's like, yeah, it's the last thing I do now. And looking back, the best. Yeah, I know. It's like, ugh. Whereas, you know, the best experiences are in a living room with some groovy music and your friends and you're just talking and laughing. Set and setting is so important. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's a nature.

[00:32:25] I like to be on the move and I like to be out. That's the... Yeah. I mean, nature is, you know, the original church. God's creation is like, where else would you really go? You know? And for me, I have, you know, this garden that I sit in, a little Zen garden I built. And yeah, I will do a therapeutic trip at some point.

[00:32:53] And are you talking about like a heroic dose, blindfolded kind of thing? Is that what you're talking about? No. So a therapeutic dose is considered 3.5 grams of Golden Teacher, which is less potent. With Amazonian, it's 2.5 grams. So that's a therapeutic dose where it's just a lot of fun. You hallucinate depending on thing, you know, you have a mushroom trip, you know, a moderate mushroom trip.

[00:33:20] When you get to five grams, anything five grams and above is considered heroic. And the effects there are ego disillusion. You don't know who you are, which sounds scary, but it's actually not. Because, you know, like Dylan said, if you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose. And it's like, I remember looking at myself in the mirror, I'm like, he seems like a happy guy. I have no idea who that is, but nice to meet you. You know, it wasn't scary at all. But that's the heroic dose. And which is, you know, fantastic experience.

[00:33:49] And, you know, out of body and, you know, just a different level of consciousness. And, and you almost die laughing sometimes. And I don't know, it's just kind of, is that what you do when you're in nature or just? Yeah, I'm, I'm in that therapeutic dose and down.

[00:34:12] And, but, you know, my favorite spot is because I do a lot of times I do, I do off trail kind of running mountaineering kind of things. And so I don't like to be, I don't like to be super high because there's problems with that. And, and, but, but the visual acuity is really increased. And I love the feeling of the flow of my body. I can enter a flow state much easier. I feel really connected in that way.

[00:34:40] It is to be cliche, but it, I just, it just feels so great to move and just be rushing, you know, like, you know, running through a forest at sunset is, you know, it's just this incredible experience. And, and, and I just feel so, you know, my, my movements are a lot more precise and confident and as, as is my, my, my, my, but visually it's, I've just, I'm just more in tuned and you have to, if you're moving quickly in the mountain, you have to be really connected or else you're going to fall.

[00:35:09] And, and, and so it's been very helpful that, and, and it's also just fun and fun and funny. And, and I, and I, I go with a partner and so we have some, and so that's, that's great as well. So do you have anything else, any other suggestions or for, so if somebody, if somebody walks by you in a beer garden and offers you a bag of mushrooms, your suggestion is take it. Not then and there. Number one, by scale.

[00:35:36] I would say that's the number one and understand the dosages. Yeah. Cause you can get into trouble if you, if you don't, you know, if you don't treat it as a medicine. So, and you know, microdosing is, you know, for thousands of years, we've been taking mushrooms and no one's ever died of a mushroom overdose. So let's say you can jump into a pit or something, but try microdosing if you think that it can benefit you.

[00:36:04] And the other thing is I never push on anyone. I only let people come to me and ask questions and I never say, Hey, I got this great cure. Use it. No, it's, you know, you just, you know, let people know that it's available and when they're ready, you know, they will show up. And if you feel ready, um, I would say that it's a very low risk way in a natural way to, to, to help yourself. All right.

[00:36:32] Uh, I, I'll leave it at that. I've, I know that you got some writing and some more growing to do and, uh, and congratulations, congratulations on your last three years. It sounds like they're, they're, you know, that could launch a thousand self-help books, that success story that you had on that. And, uh, and, uh, also thank you so much for being so open about, you know, what you're doing and, and how you got there and where it's taking you and, uh, and, and keep on

[00:37:02] going, man. It sounds so cool. Congratulations. Thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode of the mush love podcast. And a special thank you to our guests today, Henry. You could find out more information on this topic and our guests at the mush love podcast.com as well as links to past episodes and ways to subscribe. See you next time.